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> The Expanded Arcade Era appreciation & discussion thread, for Arcade Era DK and its non-DKC continuations
Man-Frog
post Jan 6 2015, 10:02 PM
Post #201


Immortal Monkey









I'd like to point out that Mario Mania also shows a screenshot of Mario saving Toad in SMB, with a caption saying he "finds a princess only to discover it's the wrong one". Surely it's the most trustworthy source we have, right?

I also didn't know region-specific commercials also determined something's official status. Learn something knew every day. wub.gif
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NES Boy
post Jan 7 2015, 02:14 AM
Post #202


Secret Squirrel









Allow me to dredge out some things from my memory:

First, there's an obscure port of Mario Bros. G&W for the Commodore 64 (billed as "Mario Bros. II", since the arcade version already showed up on the same system):


Next, in the Ripoff category, there's the "Huge Screen V2" featuring ripoffs of the Game & Watch games Greenhouse and Mario Bros. called "Baby Egg Protection" and "Loader", respectively (or "Baby Egg Proteetion" and "Lodaer", according to the screenshot captions on the back of the packaging). It has been reviewed by Stuart Ashen, connoisseur of cheap electronics and $1 products (who erroneously identifies Loader's base game as Mario's Cement Factory):


And finally, I wrote that list of Wrecking Crew '98 enemies you quoted a while back!
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TTJ94
post Jan 7 2015, 02:28 AM
Post #203


Kong Family Helper









QUOTE(Man-Frog @ Jan 6 2015, 10:02 PM) *

I'd like to point out that Mario Mania also shows a screenshot of Mario saving Toad in SMB, with a caption saying he "finds a princess only to discover it's the wrong one". Surely it's the most trustworthy source we have, right?

I also didn't know region-specific commercials also determined something's official status. Learn something knew every day. wub.gif


One error discredits all 168 pages of the (officially-licensed, published by Nintendo) magazine? Learn something knew every day.

I don't see how region-specificity affects the "officialness" of anything, or what the fuck "official status" even is. But see the 31 Years of Stanley thread for my last words on the commercial.
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Milo
post Jan 7 2015, 05:35 AM
Post #204


Video Game Hero









NES Boy, is that G&W port official? You do get a lot of bootleg stuff for those sorts of systems.
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Glowsquid
post Jan 7 2015, 07:54 AM
Post #205


Boss









QUOTE(Milo @ Jan 7 2015, 06:35 AM) *

NES Boy, is that G&W port official? You do get a lot of bootleg stuff for those sorts of systems.


It's an homebrew.
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Man-Frog
post Jan 7 2015, 09:30 AM
Post #206


Immortal Monkey









QUOTE(TTJ94 @ Jan 7 2015, 03:28 AM) *
One error discredits all 168 pages of the (officially-licensed, published by Nintendo) magazine? Learn something knew every day.

I don't see how region-specificity affects the "officialness" of anything, or what the fuck "official status" even is. But see the 31 Years of Stanley thread for my last words on the commercial


If there's an error as glaring as the one I pointed out, maybe the source is questionable!

If there's exactly one reference to something in one piece of material that only came out in one region and said thing has literally never been used in any other material released since then, I think it's level of "canon" (god I fucking hate that word) is pretty debatable.

Next I suppose you'll tell me you still think Ganondorf's last name really is Dragmire.
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I.M.Gibbon
post Jan 7 2015, 10:31 AM
Post #207


Immortal Monkey









I'd just like to point out that that Mario character encyclopedia you tout all the time lists "Lady" and "Pauline" as separate characters and doesn't always use the same enemy names as the official guidebooks for the games in question (Karasu and Crow come to mind). Despite this, I don't think we should throw out the baby with the bathwater and discount any information contains, just acknowledge that mistakes can be made and move on.
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Man-Frog
post Jan 7 2015, 11:38 AM
Post #208


Immortal Monkey









I'm well aware of the myriad of errors and oddities that are in that book, and I don't "tout" it. I'd be more likely to consider a game's actual guide book a source. DK'94 was a special case since as you said, it didn't even have an official enemy list.
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I.M.Gibbon
post Jan 7 2015, 11:42 AM
Post #209


Immortal Monkey









Fair enough.

Also, as you've pointed out elsewhere, a lot of this old stuff is coming from a time period when Nintendo really just didn't give a shit, so pretty much all the info we have from that time period should be taken with a grain of salt...
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Man-Frog
post Jan 7 2015, 11:51 AM
Post #210


Immortal Monkey









NCL seems to have given more of a shit than NoA, at any rate. Their materials are at least a step better at consistency.
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I.M.Gibbon
post Jan 7 2015, 02:12 PM
Post #211


Immortal Monkey









QUOTE(NES Boy @ Jan 7 2015, 12:14 AM) *

Allow me to dredge out some things from my memory:

First, there's an obscure port of Mario Bros. G&W for the Commodore 64 (billed as "Mario Bros. II", since the arcade version already showed up on the same system):


Next, in the Ripoff category, there's the "Huge Screen V2" featuring ripoffs of the Game & Watch games Greenhouse and Mario Bros. called "Baby Egg Protection" and "Loader", respectively (or "Baby Egg Proteetion" and "Lodaer", according to the screenshot captions on the back of the packaging). It has been reviewed by Stuart Ashen, connoisseur of cheap electronics and $1 products (who erroneously identifies Loader's base game as Mario's Cement Factory):


And finally, I wrote that list of Wrecking Crew '98 enemies you quoted a while back!


Also, good stuff there! Didn't want you to think I missed this post somehow. Interesting find with that Mario Bros II bootleg. I'll have to see if I can track that down somewhere (and find a new keyboard for my commodore while I'm at it...)
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I.M.Gibbon
post Jan 7 2015, 07:31 PM
Post #212


Immortal Monkey









Looking for more info, I came across another another C64 bootleg, Mario's Brewery!



Now we know what's in those barrels! tongue.gif

Spoiler:
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Sean
post Jan 7 2015, 11:42 PM
Post #213


Immortal Monkey









Remember when I said I had a PC version of Mario Bros. in an earlier post? The two Gibbon talked about didn't quite match up with my memory, and it turns out because I was thinking of a different game.

The Internet Archive has put up a couple thousand MS DOS games on their site that can be played for free, and one of them is Mario Bros. VGA! One look at it tells me it's the version I played as a kid.
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Enter The Kiwi
post Jan 8 2015, 11:12 AM
Post #214


Video Game Hero









^ Oooooh. God bless the Internet Archive people.

Okay so I just read through I think all of this thread and it was freaking amazing. Extremely educational for a subset of games that I have like played a lot of them but don't really know much about. Excellent work excellent thread. I'll probably have more to contribute when I replay some of these games.

Also,

IPB Image

Awww.
So I put to you
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I.M.Gibbon
post Jan 14 2015, 02:32 PM
Post #215


Immortal Monkey









Since I can't find the individual game thread:



Glad to see Nintendo finally giving this some publicity.

I'm told this game is huge, with tons of content, in addition to the level editor.

Still interested to see the story behind the little brainwashed by machine monkey miniMarios.

thefuturessobright.gif
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Milo
post Jan 14 2015, 03:46 PM
Post #216


Video Game Hero









Over here, Gibbon.
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Zedxclon
post Jan 18 2015, 06:00 PM
Post #217


:)









I've not seen it mentioned here, so, I thought I'd mention it. Kid Icarus Uprising has a room which is a reference to 25m.

There are slightly slanted platforms which go upward with huge boulders rolling down them and you have to use these little things that launch you into the air to get over the boulders to progress upward (Pit can't jump normally in this game). Think that sounds too vague to be a reference? Well, one of the characters explicitly mentions that the architect must have played Donkey Kong.
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Zedxclon
post Jan 24 2015, 02:08 PM
Post #218


:)









A more substanial reference that I've also not seen mentioned here yet; Donkey Kong Jr. in Pullblox smile.gif
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I.M.Gibbon
post Jan 24 2015, 02:14 PM
Post #219


Immortal Monkey









...does that game have a different name in each region? It's called Pushmo in the US...
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Stilt Village
post Jan 24 2015, 02:25 PM
Post #220


Video Game Hero









Pushmo and Crashmo in US, Pullblox and Fallblox in Europe. I guess neither naming scheme was inspiring enough for both sides of the ocean to adopt?
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I.M.Gibbon
post Jan 24 2015, 03:04 PM
Post #221


Immortal Monkey









You know, I'd love it if Pushmo dovetailed with Donkey Kong by way of Darmanitan. Donkey Kong Country is sitting around with all these spin-off series, while the Arcade Era really only has, like, Mario & DKC.
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Zedxclon
post Feb 2 2015, 05:59 PM
Post #222


:)









A big one I just realised you missed. Donkey Kong's appearance in NES Open Tournament Golf. I always thought he looks a bit strange in it, but it's nice to see Mario and Donkey Kong Sr. getting on smile.gif
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I.M.Gibbon
post Feb 2 2015, 06:21 PM
Post #223


Immortal Monkey









I also didn't mention stuff like his appearance in Tetris, now that you mention it.

Most, if not all, of the games on the list feature characters in a substantial rolls, either protagonists or antagonists. I suppose a category for non-playable cameos wouldn't be out of order. Actually, that would add most of Punch-Out!! series to the list, wouldn't it?

If DK Sr is in the crowd in the arcade version of Punch-Out, does that make Little Mac an Arcade Era spinoff character?
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Pine
post Feb 2 2015, 06:26 PM
Post #224


Video Game Hero









No, because he didn't debut in Donkey Kong. Cameos from other Nintendo characters in a game that isn't about them doesn't make the game a spinoff.
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Milo
post Feb 2 2015, 06:33 PM
Post #225


Video Game Hero









Actually, according to the Rools, I think it does. Was that Little Mac's first game though?

I'm going to be covering these type of minor cameos in Honourable Mentions, but it's going to be super brief. I do have screenshots for most of them though, mostly from Mario Wiki or other places but I got a few myself. Here's the screenshots, games included:
-DSi Metronome
-F-1 Race (GB)
-Mario is Missing (CD-ROM version)
-NES Open Tournament Golf
-Pinball (NES)
-Punch-Out!! (NES)
-WarioWare Smooth Moves (Opening Night microgame)
-Tetris DS
-Tetris (NES)
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I.M.Gibbon
post Feb 2 2015, 06:38 PM
Post #226


Immortal Monkey









Wiki states Little Mac first showed up in the NES entries in the series, but that doesn't preclude Donkey Kong Sr being in the crowd spots in the Arcade games. Hmm. Needs more research.
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Stilt Village
post Feb 2 2015, 06:46 PM
Post #227


Video Game Hero









Smash Bros. may have retconned the wireframe dude into Mac. Not sure.
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I.M.Gibbon
post Feb 2 2015, 06:57 PM
Post #228


Immortal Monkey











Oh shit yeah Senior's right there in the crowd in late 1983. DK's been in more Punch-Out games than Little Mac haha!
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I.M.Gibbon
post Feb 2 2015, 07:09 PM
Post #229


Immortal Monkey









According to the Punch-Out wiki the green-haired protagonist of the arcade titles is retro-actively Little Mac. How's that so-called "waluigi rule" read again?
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Pine
post Feb 2 2015, 07:20 PM
Post #230


Video Game Hero









QUOTE(Milo @ Feb 2 2015, 07:33 PM) *
Actually, according to the Rools, I think it does.

It's pre-DKC, so the Rools don't apply. Even if they did, it would be a cameo game at best. Characters introduced in Cameo games are not considered part of the DKU.

But, since the game has nothing to do with Donkey Kong outside of the background character, and since Little Mac did not appear in Donkey Kong, (and most people wouldn't even notice the cameo), it is not a spinoff of the Donkey Kong series.
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I.M.Gibbon
post Feb 2 2015, 08:07 PM
Post #231


Immortal Monkey









An interesting situation. Little Mac only appears in two games that don't feature Donkey Kong in some way, and only appears in those two games in a cameo capacity (they are not Punch-Out games). Since Donkey Kong appears in all the Punch-Out games, what does that make them in regards to the Expanded Arcade Era?

Hmm.
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Milo
post Feb 2 2015, 09:29 PM
Post #232


Video Game Hero









DK appears in ALL the Punch-Out games? Ok, so I count Arm Wrestling and Game & Watch Boxing as Punch-Out games, but what about Super Punch-Out for SNES (as opposed to Super Punch-Out for arcade)? And what's up with that blond guy from that game? He's sometimes called Mac as well.

Regardless, DK has always been a very minor cameo until the Wii one. Whether that affects your perception of previous ones is up to you.
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I.M.Gibbon
post Feb 2 2015, 09:54 PM
Post #233


Immortal Monkey









He's not in the G&W title, which is an interesting case as it was only released in the US & Europe as "Punch-Out" but elsewhere as "Boxing", and isn't in Arm Wrestling (which does feature the green-haired protagonist who would later be identified retroactively as Little Mac), though one of the opponents is a robotic gorilla named "Ape III".

I don't know. Roysten's background presence has been enough for this site to elevate something from "cameo" or "completely unrelated" to "Fish & Chaps". Under similar reasoning, since Donkey Kong Sr was in the original Punch-Out, and many of its sequels/remakes, I might be tempted to give it full series coverage like the non-Super Mario Bros games.

Anyone else have an opinion on the matter?
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Stilt Village
post Feb 2 2015, 10:04 PM
Post #234


Video Game Hero









Since the first Punch-Out!! features DK Sr., this should be a full spinoff ala Banjo if you're just following the DKU Rools minus the first one with this thread. I'm not sure if 3 Rool DKU is what you're going for though.
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Pine
post Feb 2 2015, 10:05 PM
Post #235


Video Game Hero









My honest opinion is that covering Punch-Out and it's sequels on the basis of it having Donkey Kong as a cameo is not a good motive for covering that series. It will color your written perception of the games and you'll be tempted to hold it to the same light as you do the Arcade Era DK games, which isn't fair to either franchise. Punch-Out!! does not deserve to be relegated to spinoff status just because DK made a few cameos.



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GmanSir
post Feb 2 2015, 10:49 PM
Post #236


Kong Family Helper









Random question, is Steel Divers considered DKU because it has Peppy in Sub Wars?

IPB Image
Hi
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Stilt Village
post Feb 2 2015, 10:52 PM
Post #237


Video Game Hero









No, because of an interview that said it wasn't Peppy or something. And also I think because Peppy can't make things DKU anyway since he predates Adventures.
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I.M.Gibbon
post Feb 2 2015, 11:18 PM
Post #238


Immortal Monkey









Also, DK doesn't appear to show up in the NES or SNES Punch-Out titles, just the arcade and Wii titles, so, yeah, two "appearances" and one "cameo".

Mystery solved gang!
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Milo
post Feb 2 2015, 11:57 PM
Post #239


Video Game Hero









QUOTE(GmanSir @ Feb 3 2015, 03:49 PM) *

Random question, is Steel Divers considered DKU because it has Peppy in Sub Wars?

Stilts is right. It's totally Peppy though. Incidentally, if you'd like to take this kind of discussion to a more appropriate thread, Honourable Mentions covers that sort of thing. I'm going to cover that as a Star Fox game, I think.
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I.M.Gibbon
post Feb 7 2015, 10:54 PM
Post #240


Immortal Monkey









QUOTE(I.M.Gibbon @ Jan 4 2015, 10:14 AM) *

QUOTE(Jeff @ Nov 29 2014, 10:04 AM) *

A topic request for sometime down the line: What with the newest game being out, how about a look back at the Expanded Arcade Era's representation across the Smash Bros series? Ever since melee there's been some pretty substantial retro elements in play.

Hey, just wanted to let you know that I'm back from visiting the family and am working on getting this post together. You have not been forgotten!

Jeff, I swear I'm still working on this. There's a document sitting on my desktop ready to be copy/pasted into a post. Every time I think I can move on to the next game in the series, I come across more references that require me to go back and check if they exist in previous entries in the series, often times unearthing something else I've missed.
crybabycry.gif
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I.M.Gibbon
post Feb 25 2015, 02:29 PM
Post #241


Immortal Monkey









So while I am eternally struggling with the Smash Bros entry, was there anything else wanted to see? I know this topic kind of has spurts of activity and then slow painfull death. Have I really covered everything else? Are there any games on the lists I'm missing? Keep in mind that I also want to keep track of the various activity books and physical games as well!

What are people's thoughts on the cross-polination of Balloon Fight into Ice Climber in Brawl's Ice Climber stage?

Are there any other Game & Watch games people think should be included in the Arcade Era?

Are there any other precursor games like Crazy Climber or Barrel of Monkeys that you think I've missed?

Keep the dream alive!
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I.M.Gibbon
post Mar 18 2015, 03:03 PM
Post #242


Immortal Monkey









I picked up a Donkey Kong Atari cartridge today, the one I played in my youth long since lost to the sands of time. Even back then, DK games stood out, having a milky-white cartridge instead of the typical black design.

IPB Image
(not my cart, but I'm feeling lazy)

I think I might start collecting all the various (licensed) versions of the arcade games and such. Should prove interesting. And probably expensive. Hmm.
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Man-Frog
post Mar 18 2015, 09:04 PM
Post #243


Immortal Monkey









Not as expensive as collecting them with their boxes and manuals.
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I.M.Gibbon
post Mar 18 2015, 09:33 PM
Post #244


Immortal Monkey









True enough. Finding G&W games with boxes and manuals is infuriatingly expensive. Without; Not so much.
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NES Boy
post Mar 18 2015, 10:24 PM
Post #245


Secret Squirrel









Speaking of the Game & Watch manuals, I've been reminded of what SydLexia.com wrote about Turtle Bridge:

QUOTE(SydLexia.com)
These games are all very basic and very straightforward to the point where the storyline is completely irrelevant. Still, that didn't stop Nintendo from writing half-assed plot outlines for these games. Here's what the instruction manual for Turtle Bridge says:

"Tourists attempt to cross a lake, from left bank to right bank, with their baggage by stepping on the backs of turtles."

That description is dumb, and it doesn't even accurately describe the gameplay. [...] Once you have delivered a parcel, you must jump back to the other side of the swamp and get another parcel; Nintendo's description fails to mention this. Nintendo also insists that you play as a group of tourists, which is a goddam fucking lie. There's no animation to suggest that you change characters in between trips, so any rational individual would believe that they're playing as the same damn guy over and over. And if you *are* playing as different guys, Nintendo's story doesn't add up. Why in the fuck would a group of people take turns bringing their baggage to the opposite side of a pond, only to return to the original side? IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY FUCKING SENSE WHATSOEVER!

On the other hand, the manual for Super Mario Bros. G&W did give us a page referring to the game's villain as "the Bowser".
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I.M.Gibbon
post Mar 18 2015, 10:31 PM
Post #246


Immortal Monkey









QUOTE(NES Boy @ Mar 18 2015, 09:24 PM) *
On the other hand, the manual for Super Mario Bros. G&W did give us a page referring to the game's villain as "the Bowser".

That is, uh, a historically accurate use of that term. 'Bowser' is a bit of a bastardization of a somewhat derogitory term for the wealthy class in Middle Low German. As I understand it, it's derived from Büser, which was a not entirely polite 'title' for someone rich enough to be fat. More recently (though still not that recently, relatively speaking), it was just a term for a glutton in general. I think the more historic use can be applied to our dear King Koopa however.
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Milo
post Mar 19 2015, 05:02 AM
Post #247


Video Game Hero









Man that manual overuses the definite article. Like, a lot.

I always thought the word bowser had something to do with petrol and engines, which fit his powerful fire-breathing stature. But I just found out with some googling that it's an Australian English term, so probably not. I've seen claims that "Koopa" comes from a Korean food, so who knows.
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I.M.Gibbon
post Mar 21 2015, 12:15 PM
Post #248


Immortal Monkey









Thinking of seeing if I can get ahold of the 1994 Donkey Kong Game Watch next. There's one or two on eBay for a bit more than I want to pay at the moment, but I'll keep an eye out...
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ILDC
post Mar 21 2015, 12:47 PM
Post #249


Video Game Hero









I always associated the name "Bowser" with a scary guard dog, one that is probably a Boston Terrier/Bulldog mix wearing a spiked collar.
https://open.spotify.com/user/ildc/playlist/5qUhmwwXvrOkCLvilDocmH
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I.M.Gibbon
post Mar 30 2015, 11:24 AM
Post #250


Immortal Monkey









Hey I just found out that Pauline makes some sort of appearance in Nintendo Monopoly. Anyone know in what capacity? And whether it's the 2006 or 2010 editions? (or both?)
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