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> The Expanded Arcade Era appreciation & discussion thread, for Arcade Era DK and its non-DKC continuations
Zedxclon
post Sep 25 2017, 06:38 PM
Post #551


:)









Thanks for your replies, both of you smile.gif

As I've known that Mario Wiki can be quite unreliable, I thought it was best to make my sources clear. I can understand their logic: when I was playing Mario vs. Donkey Kong 2, I saw the Spark enemies and I thought "Oh yes, it's those enemies from Super Mario Bros. 2" and it was that which prompted me to look them up on Mario Wiki to see if they'd been in anything else - as I didn't recall seeing them. So I guess, saying that Spark and Sparky are the same creature is a bit of a retcon.

Ultimately, you couldn't really say that the Sparks in SMB2 had any real "Donkey Kong DNA" in them, as it doesn't seem that there was a conscious effort to tie them to the earlier enemies until later.

IM Gibbon - one last bit of food for thought. If you don't want to include "Super" Mario games, you could always count the Sparks appearance in Doki Doki Panic and just rule out Super Mario Bros. 2 for the reasons you explained about.
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I.M.Gibbon
post Sep 25 2017, 07:14 PM
Post #552


Immortal Monkey









Hmm, now there's an angle I hadn't considered...

Will have to do some research, see if that has any other connections, and see what the implications of that would be for further game inclusion.
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TTJ94
post Oct 4 2017, 08:21 PM
Post #553


Kong Family Helper









Gibbon, do you know where I could find scans of that one Donkey Kong coloring book from the 80s that shows DK escaping from the circus...?
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I.M.Gibbon
post Oct 4 2017, 09:35 PM
Post #554


Immortal Monkey









well you can find some on the first post of this thread, for starters, though it's not a full scan.

You should note though, that that's only one of several activity books that were put out back then, and is just the one that is most passed around the internet. I've seen them on ebay from time to time, but never at a time when I have money burning a hole in my pocket.
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TTJ94
post Oct 4 2017, 10:20 PM
Post #555


Kong Family Helper









As far as I can tell, there are four distinct books, some of which have multiple covers; that sound right?

- A DK one which shows a real-world gorilla being zapped by a shrink ray and getting stuck in an arcade machine
- A DK one depicting the in-universe events leading up to the game (this *might* be same as the first but I think it's not)
- Donkey Kong Strikes Again, which is utterly fascinating. Pauline is a cabaret singer (Odyssey!) and Mario's love for her is now unrequited...
- Donkey Kong Jr. (might be more than one of these too)

I have seen a couple on eBay. Don't know if I could justify it at the moment... but anyway thanks, I'll take a look at that post.
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I.M.Gibbon
post Oct 4 2017, 11:06 PM
Post #556


Immortal Monkey









I've seen covers that say "Activity Book", "Puzzles and Mazes", and "Activity Coloring Book" for both DK & DK Jr, but, as you can see...

IPB Image

There are multiple covers for the same book, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if those are all variations of the same DK & DK Jr book.

I wasn't actually aware that Donkey Kong Strikes Again was its own thing, so thanks for that! Assuming it's the one seen here, http://neatocoolville.blogspot.com/2009/10...ain-inside.html, that actually dovetails quite nicely with an LCD game I've been trying to track down; Crazy Kong, a reskin of Monster Panic, featuring "Kong" alongside some movie monsters like a dracula and a black lagoon creature!





TTJ, I have bad news lol.

All four of those DK Strikes Again books are different inside.

SO, uh, each cover you cove across is probably a different book that needs scanning.

Fuuuuuuuuuck lol.
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I.M.Gibbon
post Dec 5 2017, 10:21 PM
Post #557


Immortal Monkey









New DK Remix for Christmas!

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TTJ94
post Dec 6 2017, 04:53 PM
Post #558


Kong Family Helper









Heh, that's pretty cool.

Gibbs, what's your take on the Saturday Supercade? I've been watching it and it's kind of interesting and I especially like the Donkey Kong Jr. segments. There's even an episode where Donkey Kong encounters other talking apes, goes to Africa and rides a rhino just like Rambi. But I'm wondering where the arcades take place in relation to these series... the Junior show clearly takes place before the Junior game and runs concurrently to the Donkey Kong show. But does the DK arcade take place before the show, or does it serve as some sort of grand culmination? The opening theme depicts DK escaping by himself, without Pauline in tow, and Mario and Pauline run after him. It does depict him running up the fire escape of a building though so maybe the arcade takes place right after that and then the rest of the show plays out; or maybe his kidnapping of Pauline took place before this particular escape. But I wonder if it would be more thematically fitting for the game to be after the show, since Pauline is downright friendly with Donkey Kong throughout the whole cartoon, yet in Odyssey we learn her kidnapping traumatized her quite a bit.

Speaking of. In Odyssey, Pauline says she's been without a purse since "that fateful day" when she was kidnapped! Only problem is, you pick up Pauline's purse in Donkey Kong '94 too! Ignoring all peripheral materials, the in-game evidence is incredibly murky on whether DK '94 was supposed to be a retelling or original adventure. I suspect the ending was meant to be a retcon of Mario's villainy in DK Jr. as well. But thanks to Odyssey we know for a fact Mario was wearing his red overalls when he fought Donkey Kong, and that Pauline was blonde too (I feel like there's a blurb in some guide or Smash Bros. that actually says this). And plus Nintendo Power, the mangas, and other stuff do treat it like a separate adventure. But Odyssey seems to treat Pauline's kidnapping as this single, monolithic event, and the fact that she had to say "I knew you'd remember" when Mario mentions it casts the Mario vs. DK games in a strange light as well.

And lastly, something strikes me about the Donkey Kong Game & Watch. Donkey Kong Jr. is there in the form of Mini Donkey Kong. This would either place it after the entirety of Saturday Supercade, or indicate that Junior was present when Mario first kidnapped Pauline, but then somehow ended up back in the jungle while Donkey Kong was returned to the circus... and I still think Donkey Kong Jr. starts off on Donkey Kong Island (as sort of implied by Miyamoto) so maybe Mario did have a confrontation with DK in Big Ape City that was separate from the arcade and led into that. Louise could even be a separate character.
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I.M.Gibbon
post Dec 10 2017, 05:15 PM
Post #559


Immortal Monkey









I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Nintendo continue does rolling continue reboots like comics do. DK'94 replaces DK'81, and the G&WGalleries replace the rest of the arcade games, and through to the buyout can be viewed as its own stretch of continuity. Mario vs Donkey Kong/Jungle Beat are the beginning of new continuity. Also like comics, you can of course view everything as one big line of continuity, but you should of course realize that retcons and handwaving occur, and not all bits of continuity agree with each other.

As for Supercade, I'd put the DK/Mario/Pauline stuff prior to the games, and view DK'81/'94 as the ultimate chapter in that book of the saga.

Since DK'81 and DKG&W clearly take place in different locals, I'd view them as separate events that make up part of the larger "Donkey Kong" saga alongside Crazy Kong, Crazy Kong Part 2, etc. It's like the books of the apostles, they each tell different aspects of the same stories tongue.gif

And she was only called Louise in the first printing of the advert fliers. By the time the game actually came out, she was called Pauline in manuals and other promo material.
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TTJ94
post Dec 10 2017, 07:08 PM
Post #560


Kong Family Helper









The Mario universe of today has clearly had changes since 1981 but I disagree with the notion that Mario vs. Donkey Kong and Jungle Beat "clearly" represent new continuities. I'm well aware of the intricacies of comic book continuity but the key difference is that comic book reboots are explicit. No such thing has ever occurred in a Mario game except for possibly the ending of Super Mario Galaxy. There's also the fact that DK '94 is pretty much never referenced by anything, while specific callbacks to the arcade version of Donkey Kong abound to this day. How do you square the fact that Odyssey shows DK's arcade sprite, uses arcade graphics, has Mario's red overalls, shows artwork of Pauline with blonde hair, artwork of DK without a tie, etc., etc.

If there were any doubts that Mario "canon" was even a thing, Odyssey puts those to rest. But through the lens of that game, I think we're meant to look at the events of the Donkey Kong arcade trilogy as broad, singular myths that clearly happened, but... in a 1930s Mickey Mouse-like status quo with little regard to the nitty-gritties of continuity. (Miyamoto loves comparing Mario to Mickey.) Everything we think we know about the old days are just embellishments to myth. So my views on non-game Mario adaptations continue to evolve; they should not be dismissed as flippantly as they are, but it's functionally impossible to square 100% of the details (or even certain storylines) with the games. For example, all of the mangas that depict Mario being involved so heavily during the events of DKC - yeah, that possibly didn't "happen" on a certain level. But then again maybe. I dunno.

My point about the DK Game & Watch is that it could be treated as separate events from the DK arcade due to the significance of Junior's presence, and as such Louise could be a separate character if nothing else explicitly refers to the Game & Watch lady as Pauline. I'm not saying I believe it but it's a possibility.
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TTJ94
post Yesterday, 09:19 PM
Post #561


Kong Family Helper









Sooo, over the past several days I’ve seen both the television show Pawn Stars and the verified UberFacts Twitter account refer to Donkey Kong as Mario’s “mistreated” pet. It’s canon now as far as I’m concerned. Y’all argue if you want. 💅
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Jeff
post Yesterday, 09:31 PM
Post #562


DKVinecraft Admin









I always thought that was the case. Or if not a pet, at least a captive animal. That's what I thought Mario Circus was about.

So then like, DK escapes the circus and kidnaps pauline because he's pissed at Mario. So Mario captures him again and now DK's son/grandson has to save him. Mario's just a dick.
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I.M.Gibbon
post Yesterday, 11:59 PM
Post #563


Immortal Monkey









Miyamoto said it once in an interview long after the fact, but none of the original stuff ever indicated this to be the case.
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Nintenfreak
post Today, 02:44 AM
Post #564


Video Game Hero









Stanley should have been in Kogwald! Steam Gardens is the perfect place for a guy like him.
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