Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Start new topicStart new topic
> Mario is not human, Yoshi's full name, and more..., from the Nintendo Character Guide
TTJ94
post Apr 6 2015, 06:22 PM
Post #1


Kong Family Helper









IPB Image

So. This surfaced awhile ago, and it has been discussed on the forum briefly, but I figure it warrants its own thread. Apparently in 1993 and 1994, Nintendo published official character guides, to be used internally by employees and licensees and such, which contained detailed bios, personality information, artwork, and official color codes for various Nintendo characters. Uncovered by Blake J. Harris, author of Console Wars: Sega, Nintendo, and the Battle that Defined a Generation, several pages of the guide have been made available on the Internet and they reveal some very interesting/hilarious information. Let's take a gander.

http://www.pressthebuttons.com/2014/12/mar...ter-manual.html

IPB Image

Born in Brooklyn! BITCHES.

IPB Image

Well, here we learn that Yoshi's full name is actually T. Yoshisaur Munchakoopas. (!) And what the fuck does the T stand for? Not only that, we learn that Mario is not even a human being! Instead of a homo sapiens, he is apparently a member of the homo nintendonus... Hmmm. I assume Luigi is as well. A handy way of explaining how they can breathe underwater, at any rate.

IPB Image

What's interesting to me is how well this synchs up with the Super Mario Bros. manual, what with Peach being a wielder of white magic which can reanimate the creatures who have been turned into blocks, and a reference to the Mushroom King. There seems to be an out-of-place apostrophe in the first line, saying "the Koopa's invaded."

IPB Image

Interesting how "Bowser" is in quotation marks. A wielder of powerful evil magic that "has not helped Bowser make friends." And there's that apostrophe in the plural "Koopas" again! I guess it was intentional.

IPB Image

Toad. Also known as, Little Toadie. Where has this been all my life? I also like how they bend over backwards to explain where Toad was during the events of Super Mario Bros. (Whenever I get around to making my thread on the identity of the individual Toad, I'll touch more on this subject.) And haha, the Fungus Federation? I LOVE IT!

IPB Image

You know what's funny about that last bit, about Mario being tolerant because he's seen too much? In the New Super Mario Bros. player's guide, it straight-up says that Mario kills Goombas! (They actually use the word "kill" to describe Mario defeating Goombas.) Remember that Goombas are political defectors from the Mushroom Kingdom to Bowser's side. UM.

All in all, man, such a treasure trove. Mr. Harris has a Twitter account, and last year he stated that the 1994 guide contained profiles on Donkey Kong (Country) characters, but these pages have yet to surface... Anyone feel like bugging him?

Lastly, in my opinion all of this is canon. Man-Frog, get in here!

Discuss.
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Stilt Village
post Apr 6 2015, 06:56 PM
Post #2


Video Game Hero









This was brought up in some thread about whether or not Mario and DK still live in separate worlds or something along those lines. I think it was dismissed as some stupid early NOA thing along the lines of the Super Show and Molblin's Magic Spear, but I don't remember exactly.

And we know he wasn't born in Brooklyn from Yoshi's Island, so that part is out.

Edit: This thing is pretty weird though. What exactly is it?
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
I.M.Gibbon
post Apr 6 2015, 06:58 PM
Post #3


Immortal Monkey









Well, we don't know where the stork got him from in the first place...

thefuturessobright.gif
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Man-Frog
post Apr 6 2015, 07:10 PM
Post #4


Immortal Monkey









QUOTE(TTJ94 @ Apr 6 2015, 06:22 PM) *
Lastly, in my opinion all of this is canon. Man-Frog, get in here!


In my opinion me fucking your mom in the ass is canon.
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Planet Cool
post Apr 6 2015, 07:22 PM
Post #5


Lord of Games









It's like you're trying to get banned.
Right, stop that. It's silly. Very silly indeed. Started out as a nice little idea about amino acids condensing in the primordial soup and now it's just got silly.
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
FamiKong
post Apr 6 2015, 07:22 PM
Post #6


Video Game Hero









Well then. Thanks for the link. It was interesting. Goodbye thread.
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
TTJ94
post Apr 6 2015, 07:23 PM
Post #7


Kong Family Helper









QUOTE(Stilt Village @ Apr 6 2015, 06:56 PM) *

This was brought up in some thread about whether or not Mario and DK still live in separate worlds or something along those lines.


Yeah, I just found this, I've edited a link in to my post.

QUOTE(I.M.Gibbon @ Apr 6 2015, 06:58 PM) *

Well, we don't know where the stork got him from in the first place...


Haha, right when I started this thread I knew this exact sentence would appear eventually. (And I agree!)

QUOTE(Stilt Village @ Apr 6 2015, 06:56 PM) *
This thing is pretty weird though. What exactly is it?


They seem to have been character bibles intended for internal use only, handed out to licensees and such to keep portrayal of their characters consistent across various media and licensing channels. As such, I legitimately, unironically believe that this information was considered official canon at the time, and since much of it has not been superseded since... well, you know where I'm going with this.
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Man-Frog
post Apr 6 2015, 07:32 PM
Post #8


Immortal Monkey









It was superseded no less than two years after the fact. Not that you'll ever change your mind, since it seems your only driving force behind proving this stupid shit "canon" is because of some ass-faced personal grudge against me.

I'm also going to assume you've never been a fan of any other 25+ year old malleable kids' franchise besides Mario, because if any fans of Batman, Transformers, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Ghostbusters, and any other thing that's been put through adaptation Jenga carried the same mentality about these respective series the way you do about Mario and Donkey Kong, they'd be committed to a mental ward.
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
DK-BK 362
post Apr 6 2015, 07:40 PM
Post #9


Kong Family Helper









I like! It seems they're trying to liven up Mario's world instead of it just being a generic sorta platformer without a personality.
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
TTJ94
post Apr 6 2015, 07:42 PM
Post #10


Kong Family Helper









Man-Frog, are you talking about Yoshi's Island? If so, that was literally just addressed in this thread, we don't witness the actual birth of Mario and Luigi. And I am fairly certain the Super Mario 64 player's guide, which post-dates Yoshi's Island, references Mario either being born in Brooklyn, or simply being from there.

Also, holy shit dude, calm down. I was just playing around when I mentioned you because I know you frequently comment on this kind of stuff.
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Man-Frog
post Apr 6 2015, 07:44 PM
Post #11


Immortal Monkey









We don't specifically see Simba coming out of Sarabi's vagina in The Lion King, I guess he must've been adopted! wub.gif

As for the Player's Guide, that's also the last time Mario has ever been stated to be from Brooklyn in any printed source, as far as I know. I explained this to Enter the Kiwi in another thread, but it's more obvious than a baboon's ass that they dropped the idea of him ever being from Brooklyn in numerous games since. A 20-some-odd-year-old bible that was exclusive to one region doesn't mean jack. Occam's fucking Razor.

QUOTE(DK-BK 362 @ Apr 6 2015, 07:40 PM) *
I like! It seems they're trying to liven up Mario's world instead of it just being a generic sorta platformer without a personality.


Because Super Mario RPG, Paper Mario, Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door, Super Paper Mario, Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga, Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time, Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story, Mario & Luigi: Dream Team, the cutscenes in Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour, the cutscenes in Mario Tennis, the cutscenes in Mario Power Tennis, the cutscenes and dialog in Mario Superstar Baseball, the cutscenes and dialog in Mario Super Sluggers, the story mode in Mario Sports Mix, the locales and civilians in Super Mario Sunshine, Rosalina's storybook in Super Mario Galaxy, and any other myriad bits of animation or dialog they can slip in whenever they have a chance don't already do that?
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
TTJ94
post Apr 6 2015, 07:47 PM
Post #12


Kong Family Helper









...Sorry, but, do what? Reference Mario's birthplace?

EDIT: Nevermind, timing mishap.
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Rawk
post Apr 6 2015, 07:56 PM
Post #13


Immortal Monkey









QUOTE(Man-Frog @ Apr 6 2015, 09:44 PM) *

Occam's fucking Razor.


Totally. Which means if there are so few humans (or human-like creatures) in a magical world inspired to some extent by Alice in Wonderland, they're probably from somewhere fucking else.
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Man-Frog
post Apr 6 2015, 07:58 PM
Post #14


Immortal Monkey









Miyamoto denied it was inspired by Alice in Wonderland.

If fucking Sonic can force us to accept that there's a handful of furries living in a city of humans with no plausible explanation (and no, Sonic X does not count), then I think we can accept the opposite from Mario.
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Planet Cool
post Apr 6 2015, 08:06 PM
Post #15


Lord of Games









QUOTE(Man-Frog @ Apr 6 2015, 07:58 PM) *

Miyamoto denied it was inspired by Alice in Wonderland.


And Ray Bradbury denied Farenheit 451 was about censorship, and yet it's still fucking obviously about censorship, and not about "television killing literature" as he claimed decades later. I'm no Death of the Author proponent, but sometimes, creators are obviously lying.
Right, stop that. It's silly. Very silly indeed. Started out as a nice little idea about amino acids condensing in the primordial soup and now it's just got silly.
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
TTJ94
post Apr 6 2015, 08:11 PM
Post #16


Kong Family Helper









I just think that Brooklyn, the Italian heritage, and the Mario Mario name still have a place in Mario's story. The storyline of the original games, shows, and comics had Mario and Luigi as plumbers in the real world who fell down the figurative rabbit hole and ended up in the fantastical world of the Mushroom Kingdom. I think it's good shit. I think it's a good idea.

So until Nintendo publishes a game where Mario says "My last name is not Mario, I was not born in Brooklyn, and I am not of Italian heritage," I can still choose to believe it. And even if they did make that game, I might still choose to ignore it unless the changes are part of a good, worthwhile story and not completely fucking arbitrary "NOA said this? Fuck that!" bullshit.

For example, Nintendo's current official word is that Cranky is DK's grandfather, and I used to abide by it, but right now I don't and my personal canon is something different, that Cranky is DK's father. But it is still supported by at least one game (DK64.)
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Rawk
post Apr 6 2015, 08:15 PM
Post #17


Immortal Monkey









2005:

QUOTE(Miyamoto)
"It started with a simple idea. I thought: I wonder what it would be like to have a character that bounces around. And the background should be a clear, blue sky. I took that idea to a programmer, and we started working on it.

Mario ended up being too big, so we shrank him. Then we thought, What if he can grow and shrink? How would he do that? It would have to be a magic mushroom! Where would a mushroom grow? In a forest. We thought of giving Mario a girlfriend, and then we started talking about Alice in Wonderland."


2009:

QUOTE(Miyamoto)
"Some time ago I was being interviewed and I spoke about Alice in Wonderland. But it seems there was some misunderstanding and its since been stated that I was influenced by Alice in Wonderland. That isnt the case. Its just that there has always somehow been a relationship between mushrooms and magical realms. Thats why I decided that Mario would need a mushroom to become Super Mario."


Sounds like a lie to me.
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Man-Frog
post Apr 6 2015, 08:33 PM
Post #18


Immortal Monkey









Or it could've been a legitimate misunderstanding. You know, like how we all thought Miyamoto hated DKC? Or did he lie about liking that?

But let's assume for a moment that it really was inspired by Alice in Wonderland. Apparently that means it has to be absolutely 100% exactly like Alice in Wonderland. It also means they can't change whatever they want as they see fit as the franchise grows and expands! I mean, who ever heard of a popular franchise changing things as needed? That's just silly! Everything has to remain exactly as it was when it was first conceived! I mean, could you imagine if Donkey Kong ever became anything other than a game about a carpenter saving his girlfriend from a gorilla, or if Sonic ever underwent a redesign? People would hate that!

QUOTE(TTJ94 @ Apr 6 2015, 08:11 PM) *
a bunch of stuff


- They don't have a place. If they did, they wouldn't have dropped them.
- The storyline of the games do not have them hailing from the real world. It has never once come up in any game or packed-in instruction manual. This is likely the reason why Yoshi's Island exists.
- I don't think it's "good shit". I think it goes completely against the utter absurdity and accessibility that Mario has come to be known for. The idea had appeal, but the Mario franchise as a whole has obviously evolved into something where that idea no longer applies. Again, this is likely the reason why they dropped it.
- People also "choose to believe" that evolution is not a thing despite mountains of evidence in favor of it, so that point's not exactly helping your case. I can "choose to believe" that I'm actually King of West Virginia, but you'll immediately notice that that's patently not true. If you're gonna attempt to apply logic to stupid kids' games, then stay consistent.
- Every other game in the series, plus a few games not in the series, plus their instruction manuals, plus Nintendo's own website, plus various other ads and press releases say "no", but that one game says "yes", so "yes" is apparently true. I don't think you know evidence works!
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
TTJ94
post Apr 6 2015, 08:38 PM
Post #19


Kong Family Helper









I specifically stated that what I choose to believe regarding Donkey Kong's lineage goes against the current games, I'm not pretending otherwise. And I still contend they have not definitively dropped certain aspects of the classic Mario origin.
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Man-Frog
post Apr 6 2015, 08:41 PM
Post #20


Immortal Monkey









Show me where they've mentioned it since 1996.
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Stilt Village
post Apr 6 2015, 08:53 PM
Post #21


Video Game Hero









I think one of you is using the "abandon or discontinue" definition of "dropped", and the other is using "discard or exclude". The difference being that in the former scenario the thing is technically still around though no longer acknowledged, whereas in the latter it's been actively gotten rid of.

I suppose most of this would fall under the former definition, but I still say those of you holding onto Brooklyn post-YI are being ridiculous.
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Rawk
post Apr 6 2015, 08:54 PM
Post #22


Immortal Monkey









Intent is the most important thing for me. Just like how DKC Donkey Kong was intended to be a descendant of the arcade Donkey Kong, Mario was clearly intended to be working-class dude who fell through a pipe (Mario Bros.) and ended up in a magical wonderland where he was one few humans/homo nintendoni around.

These details being "forgotten" aren't enough to make me immediately disregard the entire thought process that went into creating the characters. This is why I don't see the Smash/toys controversy as being even remotely comparable, because the whole point of Iwata's statement wasn't that it suddenly retconned something previously established, it was that it reinforced what the team's intent was from the very beginning. The only thing it "retconned" was fanon.
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
FamiKong
post Apr 6 2015, 09:07 PM
Post #23


Video Game Hero









I don't see where its difficult to reconcile the two beliefs.

Meaning, born, taken to the MK, wandering out into the real world at some point and then wandering back in during his adult years.
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Man-Frog
post Apr 6 2015, 09:11 PM
Post #24


Immortal Monkey









Miyamoto was the one who confirmed that the Koopalings are no longer Bowser's kids even though they were at the beginning. Intent can change also.

QUOTE(Stilt Village @ Apr 6 2015, 08:53 PM) *
I think one of you is using the "abandon or discontinue" definition of "dropped", and the other is using "discard or exclude". The difference being that in the former scenario the thing is technically still around though no longer acknowledged, whereas in the latter it's been actively gotten rid of.

I suppose most of this would fall under the former definition, but I still say those of you holding onto Brooklyn post-YI are being ridiculous.


What leads me to believe it's been discarded is the fact that the early "Brooklyn era" Mario games have been re-released and redesigned to match the later games, and the fact that there are no less than three different games that all hinge on Mario having been born in the Mushroom Kingdom as shown in Yoshi's Island, each more incriminating than the last. The only way anybody could possibly look at these and still find some excuse to have Mario be from Brooklyn is out of sheer denial. As in, they really really want Mario to be from Brooklyn for whatever reason.

The reason I don't hold onto it is because I hold Mario to the same standard as any other stupid cartoon that I like. Would any of you guys even attempt to rationalize why Spongebob is the only sponge in all of Bikini Bottom?
Or why King Neptune is a completely different character in the movie?
Or why Wile E. Coyote doesn't just order pizza?
Or how Daffy never dies no matter how many times he gets shot?
Or why Peg, Pistol and Waffles are completely absent from A Goofy Movie?
Or why Mickey can be living in Mouseton in one comic but then be living in Duckberg in another comic?
Or how Goofy and Pluto can coexist?
Or how James Bond never ages despite Ian Fleming's books always taking place during the decade they were written?
Or how Joel Robinson and Mike Nelson can survive on the Satellive of Love without ever eating?
Or when the hell Jack Bauer goes to the bathroom if he takes 24 hours to solve each conflict?

Have I made my point yet? Some of these aren't even cartoons!
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Dong Jungle
post Apr 6 2015, 09:18 PM
Post #25


Kong Family Helper









QUOTE(Man-Frog @ Apr 6 2015, 11:11 PM) *

Or why King Neptune is a completely different character in the movie?


Easy. He is the new King after the other Neptune dies since the movie is actually the final episode as intended by the creator. SpongeBob is made the manager of the Krusty Krab 2 which hasn't happened on the show yet.

QUOTE(TTJ94 @ Apr 6 2015, 08:22 PM) *

Well, here we learn that Yoshi's full name is actually T. Yoshisaur Munchakoopas. (!)

That's his species name in latin, that doesn't make it his given name in English and Japanese, which is still Yoshi.
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Stilt Village
post Apr 6 2015, 09:24 PM
Post #26


Video Game Hero









Additionally, Spongebob isn't the only sponge, there's also his parents and grandma (but I get the impression that non-fish species are minorities in the area anyway). He also had other relatives in the post-movie episodes, but I just pretend it ended at the movie since that was where it was intended to finish and the post-movie seasons are pretty bad. Which I suppose brings this back around to the topic at hand, kind of.
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
ILDC
post Apr 6 2015, 09:25 PM
Post #27


Video Game Hero









I was going to say "SpongeBob is a gag cartoon with no continuity", but then I remembered what forum I'm on.
https://open.spotify.com/user/ildc/playlist/5qUhmwwXvrOkCLvilDocmH
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
TTJ94
post Apr 6 2015, 09:36 PM
Post #28


Kong Family Helper









QUOTE(Man-Frog @ Apr 6 2015, 09:11 PM) *
Would any of you guys even attempt to rationalize why Spongebob is the only sponge in all of Bikini Bottom?


Besides his parents, his grandmother, and his cousin, Stanley S. SquarePants? And I haven't even watched the last few seasons, so there's probably more.

Good posts up there by Rawk, FamiKong and Stilt Village, who all illustrated (probably better than I could) what I am thinking on this. They have never definitively refuted Mario's classic origin, but I will concede that a few asterisks are needed in light of the Yoshi's Island series. But then, where does it stop? This is a discussion that has occurred ad nauseam around here, but Baby Mario and Baby Luigi regularly engage in sports activities alongside their adult selves!

Also, here is the interview: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/arc...-interview.aspx

I have comments on three excerpts here, with the last one being especially bizarre and Miyamoto-esque:

QUOTE
In Super Mario Bros. 3, the Koopalings were supposed to be Bowser's children. But there's also Bowser Jr. Are they all his kids, and are they all from different mothers? Is Bowser Jr. a Koopaling?

SM: Our current story is that the seven Koopalings are not Bowser's children. Bowser's only child is Bowser Jr., and we do not know who the mother is.


Welp, a definite retcon! I have no problem with that, though I would like to point out the Koopalings are still officially siblings of each other, according to the New Super Mario Bros. U website.

QUOTE
Some people claim that Mario and Luigi's last name is "Mario." Are their names officially Mario Mario and Luigi Mario?

Shigeru Miyamoto: This is an old story, but Hollywood did a film version of the Mario Bros. many years back. There was a scene in the script where they needed a last name for the characters. Somebody suggested that, because they were the Mario Bros., their last name should be Mario. So, they made him "Mario Mario." I heard this and laughed rather loudly. Of course, this was ultimately included in the film. Based on the film, that's [how] their names ended up. But, just like Mickey Mouse doesn't really have a last name, Mario is really just Mario and Luigi is really just Luigi.


He chose a really bad example for this, because isn't Mickey Mouse's last name... Mouse? I wonder what Disney would think about him saying this. Anyway. What he says is "Mario is really just Mario and Luigi is really just Luigi." Does this mean that, in Miyamoto's mind, Mario and Luigi have no last names? Probably. But I still think there are multiple ways of interpreting his statement, and I even think it doesn't necessarily preclude the last names from having some form of legitimacy; he says they're "just" Mario and Luigi... Okay? So within whatever physical universe Mario and Luigi inhabit, they truly have no surnames whatsoever? Surnames do not exist? I just don't know about this one. If it were in a game, instruction manual, official website, or something of that nature, I might react differently... but, statements in a magazine interview? Hmmm. Kind of reminds me of that magazine called Mario Mania, which also contained an interview with Miyamoto, but according to Man-Frog, canonical information cannot be gleaned from Mario Mania...

QUOTE
Mario has been a boxing referee, a doctor, an Olympian, and a carpenter. Are all these official careers in Mario lore? If he has a medical degree, why does he continue his plumbing business?

SM: There's really only one rule in terms of the things that Mario does. Generally, it's that he's more on the blue-collar side. He's hard-working, and certainly much more physical in nature. So, I think that a doctor is sort of an unexpected and perhaps unbelievable role for Mario. Perhaps the Dr. Mario you're thinking of was maybe, in some way, not necessarily legitimate.


Now, what the fuck is this shit? The Dr. Mario the interviewer is "thinking of" is not necessarily legitimate? So all those Dr. Mario games just don't exist? What's funny about this is, Smash 4 claims Dr. Mario's medical degree is responsible for slowing his speed and lowering his jump.
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
David
post Apr 6 2015, 09:42 PM
Post #29


Staff Member









Mickey can afford lots of homes (being the most famous character ever), Pluto is severely handicapped, James Bond is a Time Lord, Jack Bauer goes to the bathroom during commercial breaks...
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Rawk
post Apr 6 2015, 09:43 PM
Post #30


Immortal Monkey









I can see Mario as a backstreet abortion doctor.
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Clutch
post Apr 6 2015, 09:51 PM
Post #31


Staff Member









I've mentally rationalized more than a couple of those exact scenarios in Man-Frog's list in the past. If I weren't on my phone, I'd go through them.

They're simple explanations for the most part, mind. At some point I just need to feel like characters exist in a world of SOME consequence and history or I just lose investment in what's happening.

In the case of Mario though...I can hardly bring myself to care much anymore, outside of the RPGs. Just let me think DK Island existing on Earth is a reasonable conclusion so that it makes more sense that the Kongs cross paths with Banjo and Conker without insulting my intelligence and Mario could be a purple sea lion born on Mars for all I care.
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Planet Cool
post Apr 6 2015, 10:18 PM
Post #32


Lord of Games









QUOTE(Man-Frog @ Apr 6 2015, 09:11 PM) *

The only way anybody could possibly look at these and still find some excuse to have Mario be from Brooklyn is out of sheer denial. As in, they really really want Mario to be from Brooklyn for whatever reason.


Yes, exactly. Now you're getting it. Some people prefer certain interpretations of the character, regardless of the games' ever-evolving canon. Using One's Imagination: It Can Be Kind of Fun Sometimes.™
Right, stop that. It's silly. Very silly indeed. Started out as a nice little idea about amino acids condensing in the primordial soup and now it's just got silly.
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
GmanSir
post Apr 6 2015, 10:23 PM
Post #33


Kong Family Helper









Just like religion.
Hi
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Alph
post Apr 6 2015, 11:57 PM
Post #34


Video Game Hero









Sometimes I think certain people are forgetting that all of this is fictional. Meaning none of it is real. And as such, the story established for Mario in 1990 is still equally as "real" as any story established today, because neither of them are real. This is not a matter of fact versus fiction, it is fiction versus fiction. There is no reason aside from preference to choose one fiction over the other.
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
FamiKong
post Apr 7 2015, 12:12 AM
Post #35


Video Game Hero









I think for a lot of people its not about the world being real, rather its about what is canon, which is a little different.

Some people, myself included, like to know what the whole story is, and in Man-Frog's defense it is a little unclear of what the intentions are with the character of Mario in the modern day if one chooses to dig a little deeper into this series (despite there not being much to dig into, however, it is enjoyable to do so). Mario's past is intentionally vague, methinks, but there is enough room there to fit in both the Brooklyn stuff and the Baby in Mushroom Kingdom stuff. I think the Blue Collar era of Mario is very fascinating, and it would be sad if I found out that modern developers were trying to retcon that era.

But its just like the DK stuff. It's intentionally vague to where I don't think you can factually say that it is one thing or another. Its all up to personal interpretation, however, there are canon facts that we can draw interpretation from.



To sum, (because I am not as eloquent a typist in these short little bursts of writing) there is a Nintendo canon full of facts about the Mario series, but a lot of the finer details are left up to personal interpretation.
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
ILDC
post Apr 7 2015, 12:21 AM
Post #36


Video Game Hero









QUOTE(Alph @ Apr 6 2015, 09:57 PM) *

Sometimes I think certain people are forgetting that all of this is fictional. Meaning none of it is real. And as such, the story established for Mario in 1990 is still equally as "real" as any story established today, because neither of them are real. This is not a matter of fact versus fiction, it is fiction versus fiction. There is no reason aside from preference to choose one fiction over the other.

If I had a video of Comic Book Guy saying "get out of my store", I'd post it. In total jest of course.
https://open.spotify.com/user/ildc/playlist/5qUhmwwXvrOkCLvilDocmH
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
koopaul
post Apr 7 2015, 01:03 AM
Post #37


Immortal Monkey









I think it's pretty obvious that the Mario series was born from gameplay ideas and nothing more. Miyamoto said the Super Mushroom was inspired by Alice in Wonderland, NOT the Mushroom Kingdom itself.

Hell, Goombas were created because they wanted an easier enemy to kill and were running out of room on the cartridge so they turned a Super Mushroom into an enemy. Everything in the Mario series was incidental. Nothing was intended to be a part of some story or world, but it became that way.

So yeah, it's pretty easy to believe that Miyamoto had no intention of there being an inter-dimensional plot of any kind when making Super Mario Bros. The idea of "What is this place? Who's this Mario? How did he get here?" never crossed his mind.

It was up to other people to flesh out this world, because Miyamoto wasn't. NOA had their own ideas. But years later Nintendo of Japan had their own ideas too. Since Japan controls what happens in the series, it's what they decide that is the truth.
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Dong Jungle
post Apr 7 2015, 01:05 AM
Post #38


Kong Family Helper









Ignoring the last 20 years of the Mario canon of games because when I was a kid I thought a Brooklyn plumber sounded cool is not too far off from thinking that Donkey Kong is a reformed bad guy who used to throw barrels at Mario and kidnap princesses.

Because that also sounded cool to you as a child and all this DKC retcon stuff that Rare made up goes against the original spirit of what was intended for the character. Mario vs. Donkey Kong proves the retcons don't count in a hypothetical Mario Universe community.
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Mametchi
post Apr 7 2015, 01:14 AM
Post #39


Bustin' a Nut









QUOTE(Man-Frog @ Apr 6 2015, 08:11 PM) *


The reason I don't hold onto it is because I hold Mario to the same standard as any other stupid cartoon that I like. Would any of you guys even attempt to rationalize why Spongebob is the only sponge in all of Bikini Bottom?

This sentence just so happened to trigger memories of a rather kinky SpongeBob porno, where, well, SpongeBob is the last of his kind and he has to get Sandy to make him a sponge baby.

Spoiler:


Spoilers for obvious NSFW
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Nintenfreak
post Apr 7 2015, 02:41 AM
Post #40


Video Game Hero









Mario's personality is pretty consistent. I've always figured Mario is a little nave, so he doesn't think he's killing Goombas. But the stuff it says has been consistent in the odd occasion Mario has personality, like in Nintendo World. The talking Mario even says that "Sure, Bowser's a bad guy, but he's still my friend."

Luigi, I'd figure to be more cynical and worldly.
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Glowsquid
post Apr 7 2015, 10:13 AM
Post #41


Boss









QUOTE(Man-Frog @ Apr 6 2015, 09:11 PM) *


The reason I don't hold onto it is because I hold Mario to the same standard as any other stupid cartoon that I like. Would any of you guys even attempt to rationalize why Spongebob is the only sponge in all of Bikini Bottom?


The answer to this question is "You're on a Donkey Kong lores forum".
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
DK Rapper
post Apr 7 2015, 11:29 AM
Post #42


Video Game Hero









QUOTE(Man-Frog @ Apr 6 2015, 09:10 PM) *



In my opinion me fucking your mom in the ass is canon.


No one likes you.
It's Tail Time! At Least I'm Not at the DMV Would Cheech and/or Chong Please Report to the Front Desk Trapped in Boy George's Pants
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Enter The Kiwi
post Apr 7 2015, 12:57 PM
Post #43


Video Game Hero









In my opinion,


Regardless of whether or not this is "canonical" it is still really funny and interesting. My absolute favorite bit is "Mario is Tolerant". Go Mario!
So I put to you
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
NES Boy
post Apr 7 2015, 02:01 PM
Post #44


Secret Squirrel









QUOTE(TTJ94 @ Apr 6 2015, 11:36 PM) *
This is a discussion that has occurred ad nauseam around here, but Baby Mario and Baby Luigi regularly engage in sports activities alongside their adult selves!

I believe at the end of Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time (the only non-sports game where the Mario Bros. and their baby selves appeared together), Toadsworth the Younger and the babies took Professor E. Gadd's time machine with them, so at least there's an explanation for that.
[IMG]http://www.i-mockery.com/minimocks/Ax-Em/yelling.gif[/IMG]
Feel the terror! Experience the horror! Witness this guy fail to keep a straight face!
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Planet Cool
post Apr 7 2015, 02:11 PM
Post #45


Lord of Games









QUOTE(Nintenfreak @ Apr 7 2015, 02:41 AM) *

Mario's personality is pretty consistent. I've always figured Mario is a little nave, so he doesn't think he's killing Goombas.


He really isn't killing Goombas. As the Angry Video Game Nerd pointed out, nobody dies in a Mario game. Enemies are simply "defeated." And I really don't think that's a euphemism. Wile E. Coyote rules apply.
Right, stop that. It's silly. Very silly indeed. Started out as a nice little idea about amino acids condensing in the primordial soup and now it's just got silly.
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
I.M.Gibbon
post Apr 7 2015, 02:12 PM
Post #46


Immortal Monkey









Indeed. Bowser regularly gets his flesh melted away and walks it off.
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
TTJ94
post Apr 7 2015, 02:30 PM
Post #47


Kong Family Helper









The New Super Mario Bros. player's guide actually does use the words kill, killing, etc. to refer to Mario defeating Goombas, and possibly other enemies - I'll have to check. Other than that, I struggle to think of any source that has explicitly described what happens when Mario stomps on an enemy.

And, kind of weird, but New Super Mario Bros. seemingly does show Bowser straight-up die, and I think U does too, or at least you defeat him and then Kamek puts some kind of spell on him. But in the first game, yeah, it seems like he actually dies and is brought back to life (with the help of the Koopas' black magic!)
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
NES Boy
post Apr 7 2015, 05:54 PM
Post #48


Secret Squirrel









This reminds me of how the American instuction manual for the first game keeps mentioning enemies being killed.
[IMG]http://www.i-mockery.com/minimocks/Ax-Em/yelling.gif[/IMG]
Feel the terror! Experience the horror! Witness this guy fail to keep a straight face!
User is offlinePM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Start new topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 22nd October 2017 - 08:19 PM
Banana Coins don't grow on trees! Please help keep this site running.
DK Vine Forums